8 Deck Blackjack

This attractive 8-deck blackjack shoe not only makes any table look professional, but it also provides security by keeping the cards covered preventing any tampering or card counting. It is made of a shiny plastic with a heavy wedge inside. In this article we are going to teach you how to evaluate eight-deck blackjack games. For the purpose we utilize computer-generated eight-deck game simulations. In this case we set the number of players to four, the total bankroll is set to $10 000 and the risk of ruin is a constant (5%).

1. 8 Deck Blackjack
2. The Wizard Of Odds - Wizard Of Odds

Hello BJ players,
I wonder what's the effect of card counting (let's the say the best way of counting which is Wonging in my opinion) when the casino uses 8 decks and a cutting card on 50-60% of the deck.
Let's say the other rules are normal. Dealer stands on S17, BJ pays 3:2, so a normal house edge around 0,6 or 0,7%.
I think it is almost impossible to gain an advantage because of the 8 decks. But when it mighte be possible, it can be done on some online casino's where you can just sit without playing. Just back counting and wait till the deck is more hot (with aces and 10's).
What are other peoples experiences?

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Under the conditions you describe, I would say that the game is not worth counting and should be avoided. There are some 8 deck games that can be beaten and some that can be a tad better than a comparable 6 deck game. The important thing is good penetration and you just don't have it here. With the house edge you give, there's obviously no surrender which makes matters worse.
If you absolutely must play this game, a proper bankroll is crucial as well as aggressive Wonging and a betting spread of at least 1-20 units. Wong in at TC +2 and Wong out at 0.
You'll have to be very patient, as a very large amount of your time will be spent casing tables. I hope this isn't the only game you have access to because it's not great.

The penetration is pretty horrible and the game should be avoided based off of that for 8 decks. If you indeed have 'standard rules' (DAS, DA2, S17, 3-2 BJ) I believe that game is about 0.55%.
You can absolutely gain an advantage in this game (assuming you find a dealer with better penetration), regardless of the 8 decks. The lower number of decks yes the slightly better odds you get, but the math works the same. Each true count will increase you by ~.5%. Thus, in the game you're describing you can have an advantage at TC +2 and above. With wonging I don't see why this game wouldn't be beatable (if you can find a table with much better penetration). Again, this is for much better penetration (75%+). If you absolutely can't find anything above 50-60% PEN, I wouldn't play.

The problem with the 8 decks is not so much that the HE off the top is higher (that is minor) but that the TC is less volatile, so profitable situations come up less frequently.

The problem with the 8 decks is not so much that the HE off the top is higher (that is minor) but that the TC is less volatile, so profitable situations come up less frequently.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I do understand why playing with less decks is more advantageous, but for any number of decks isn't the following true?
True Count . Advantage (%) . Frequency Per 100 Hands
. . -1 . . .. -1.0% . . . . . . 13
. . 0 . . .. -0.5% . . . . . . 34
. . 1 . . .. 0.0% . . . . . . 13
. . 2 . . . . 0.5% . . . . . . 8.5
. . 3 .. .. . 1.0% . . . . . . 4.5
. . 4 . .. . 1.5% . . . . . . 3.5
. . 5 .. .. 2.0% . . . . . . 2
. . 6 .. .. 2.5% . . . . . . 2
. . 7 . . .. 3.0% . . . . . . 1
. . 8 . . . . 3.5% . . . . . . 0.5

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I do understand why playing with less decks is more advantageous, but for any number of decks isn't the following true?
True Count Advantage (%) Frequency Per 100 Hands
-1 -1.0% 13
0 -0.5% 34
1 0.0% 13
2 0.5% 8.5
3 1.0% 4.5
4 1.5% 3.5
5 2.0% 2
6 2.5% 2
7 3.0% 1
8 3.5% 0.5

Where did you get those numbers from? That can't possibly be right.

8 Deck Blackjack

First, the frequency depends on penetration. The deeper you deal, the more frequently the higher counts will come out.
Second, it has to depend on the number of decks. Think about it: If you are playing double deck, the true count could easily jump to +2 after the first hand. That's more or less impossible at an 8 deck game. The TC will jump around a lot quicker with fewer decks because the denominator is smaller (that's the same reason that you need deeper penetration to get the higher counts out; the denominator drops as you deal deeper).

Where did you get those numbers from? That can't possibly be right.
First, the frequency depends on penetration. The deeper you deal, the more frequently the higher counts will come out.
Second, it has to depend on the number of decks. Think about it: If you are playing double deck, the true count could easily jump to +2 after the first hand. That's more or less impossible at an 8 deck game. The TC will jump around a lot quicker with fewer decks because the denominator is smaller (that's the same reason that you need deeper penetration to get the higher counts out; the denominator drops as you deal deeper).

Again, I understand why this makes sense with fewer decks. But how many times in a DD game have you had a TC +3 for 4-5 deals? That's quite possible in a 6 or 8 deck game where as it's not as likely in a DD game. So overall they should average out and you should have an equal number of advantageous bets, with yes, lower number of decks being more short term 'volatile' to the TC.
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/6DeckText.htm (about 40% of the way down the page)

The Wizard Of Odds - Wizard Of Odds

by Arnold Snyder

The penetration is pretty horrible and the game should be avoided based off of that for 8 decks. If you indeed have 'standard rules' (DAS, DA2, S17, 3-2 BJ) I believe that game is about 0.55%.
You can absolutely gain an advantage in this game (assuming you find a dealer with better penetration), regardless of the 8 decks. The lower number of decks yes the slightly better odds you get, but the math works the same. Each true count will increase you by ~.5%. Thus, in the game you're describing you can have an advantage at TC +2 and above. With wonging I don't see why this game wouldn't be beatable (if you can find a table with much better penetration). Again, this is for much better penetration (75%+). If you absolutely can't find anything above 50-60% PEN, I wouldn't play.

I don't think Raymond is going to see this 3 1/2 year post. His last visit was on Nov 7, 2011. I was the first to respond to him. Yup, I was benbakdoff in another life.

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